In this conversation, Matt and Hayne discuss various topics including their personal lives, parenting, faith, and their experiences with religion. Hayne shares his background growing up in a conservative Southern Baptist home and his journey into faith and the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA). They also touch on the influence of Christian nationalism and the cult-like aspects of certain religious groups. Hayne shares his journey of deconstruction and reconstruction in his faith, starting with his experience as a firefighter and his exposure to suffering. He began questioning the theology he had been taught and started exploring alternative perspectives. He delved into books by authors like Greg Boyd, Thomas Merton, Richard Rohr, and Pete Enns, which helped shape his evolving beliefs. Hayne also discusses his experience attending an Episcopal church and the significance of the Eucharist in his spiritual journey. In this final part of the conversation, Hayne shares his journey of reconstruction and his evolving beliefs. He discusses his experience with an Episcopal church and how it helped him soften and embrace grace. Hayne also talks about his wife's diagnosis with stage four metastatic breast cancer and how it has shaped his beliefs. He describes himself as more agnostic than ever and explores the idea of healthy spirituality being a combination of great psychology and religion. Hayne emphasizes the importance of treating others with love and compassion, especially the marginalized and the least of these